TIGHT TIRE INSTALL TECHNIQUE
Sometime it might seem to be impossible to install a tire onto a Derby rim. Road tires with tubes can be especially difficult without using a proper tire install technique.
The trick is to start installing the tire bead at 180 degrees and opposite side of the rim from the valve for most tire bead clearance as the beads are installed into the center of the rim and finally completely into the rim before airing up. And most important, be sure that the tire's beads are located only in the deep center channel until the tire is finally completely over the outer rim wall near the valve, so that the tire beads are not stuck or hung up on the tubeless Derby rim's bead seats having a greater diameter than the deep center channel.
Here is a YouTube video showing proper technique for a mountain tire, and the same technique applies for road tires. Pay attention to the final bead install technique, pinching the tire beads into the deep center channel around the rim while getting the last section of tire bead over the rim wall, shown at 4:16 and 5:45: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qp-3SJK-qkg
Derby Rims are designed to be able to install and remove tires without plastic tire levers for tires having accurate specification tire bead inner diameter. Plastic tire levers are only required for new tires with beads that are undersized from the wheel size bead diameter specification. Many road tires have undersized tire beads, and do require tire levers to install. Mountain bike tires usually are accurate in bead diameter size, but tires from Maxxis and WTB are known to be undersized and require levers to install the last 6 to 8 inches of bead with proper technique, there may be others. Most tires do not need levers after used, after possibly undersized beads are stretched by the accurate bead seat specification diameter of Derby rims.
TIGHT TIRE BEAD REMOVAL TECHNIQUE
Some deflated tires are difficult to remove over the bead retention ridge without using the following technique:
Lay a short section of the rim with deflated tire over a log or arm of a couch, or any platform surface,
Hold up the majority of the wheel behind the platform edge level with one hand,
Grab the tire hanging over the platform edge tightly with the other hand, and quickly push down with your palm on the sidewall near the rim.
The bead should pop down into the deep center channel pretty easily, and the rest of the bead can be peeled over the retention ridge into the center channel after the initial section pops over.
IS TIRE PROFILE CHANGED WITH WIDER RIMS?
When upgrading to Derby rims, I always recommend using the same tires your are most familiar, even if used and swapped form another wheel set, and ride on familiar trail, as a baseline, to feel the difference with wide Derby Rims. I've found that old worn out tires work better on Derby Rims than the same tires when new on narrow ~25mm inside width rims.
The tread profile is really not changed as much as is hyped by some riders without experience, or very little experience and have not tuned tire pressures to be optimized lower than they had on narrow rims. The sidewall becomes wider mostly near the rim, and no wider near the edge knobs. More square profile tire edge knobs rise about 1 mm or so, less so with rounder profile tires, the center cannot rise because it is constrained like a belt around the wheel. The casing is constrained in diameter and profile, so the casing stiffens under the edge knobs and gives a feeling of a harder edge and more stable tire.
Wider rims enable much lower tire pressures, from 5 to 10 psi lower, heavier riders able to lower air pressure more than lighter riders who already can ride much lower pressures on narrow rims. With lower tire pressures the edge knobs and casing comply more to the ground surface during cornering, increasing tire patch size when weighted in a corner. And cornering is more forgiving with the same tires on wider rims, they do not wash out as easily or as quickly as the same tire on narrower rims. There are some who have no experience who say that the profile becomes much more square with wider rims, and then the tire suddenly looses traction, which is not true, the tire whether rounder or more square in profile design slides with more predictability when set up with optimized lower pressure for the wider rim.
If you like round profile tires now, they will remain just about the same round profile, with more traction and more edge bite. If you like more square tires, they will square up slightly more and become more forgiving and slide at the limit more predictably using lower pressures enabled by the wider rims.
I always recommend using the same tires your are most familiar, even if used and swapped from another wheel set, and ride on familiar trail, as a baseline, to feel the difference with wide Derby Rims.
Smaller tires have a greater rate of improvement when going to wider rims. There is more tire profile change compared to larger higher volume tires.
Derby Rim riders are riding on 22C to 28mm on Derby RC and RD road rims, and 33C to 47C on Derby CX and BX gravel bike rims, and 2.0 to 2.25 on Derby 29 XC rims, 2.3 to 2.6 technical trail tires on Derby 29, 27.5, and 26 AM rims and DH tire on DH rims, and 2.8 and 3.0 on Derby 27+ and 29+ AM rims and DH-Enduro tires on DH plus size rims.
See Mountain Rim Spec's and Road & Gravel Rim Spec's pages for tire sizes range for each Derby rim model.
TUBELESS READY (TR)
Derby rims are so deep at 31mm that normal mountain bike tubeless Presta valves are too short to get an air pump chuck to lock on. So 40m or longer is required. I like the Stan's 44mm, having a removable valve core so that sealant is easy to add with Stan's sealant syringe.
A tube with normal 35mm stem is OK without the lock nut, to get an air pump to lock on. But I try to carry a long stem tube for flats that won't seal with sealant, it just easier with a longer valve stem.
Orange Seal 48mm tubeless stem is what I use. These have a removable core for easy access to add sealant with a Sealant Injector. They can be mail ordered from Stan's web site, and shipped quickly.
The best most effective tape I've found is Orange Seal 18mm wide tape. It can be found for $10 to $12 (MSRP) on-line. One roll is enough for 4 rims, one round.
Another option is using one round of Stan's 12mm wide tape and adding another round of 3/4 inch (18mm) wide plastic tape over the narrow Stans, such as electricians black tape.
Using tape wall to wall is not needed, this can be too tight, and not seal as well with good quality tires. Only the spoke holes need to be sealed with good sticky tape, 3/4 inch or 18mm wide in the center channel. Derby Rims don't burp with tape only in the center channel, using every tire I've heard of. No one has ever complained about burps.
HOOKLESS RIM WALLS
Derby Rims has an industry leading original tubeless ready (TR) thick hookless rim walls and a bead seat design with bead retention ridges, tightly centering and locking the tire in the Derby Rim bead seat, introduced in 2013. Now in 2016 most other rim companies making new model carbon and aluminum rims have closely copied the Derby Rim bead seat patent-pending design. A rim wall bead hook is useless for all quality mountain bike tires available and TR cyclocross and TR road tires, all having a strong safe tire beads that do not stretch more than a millimeter or two during their useful life. Road clincher tires maintain old 1970's technology, thin tire beads, that stretch easily from higher air pressure to become 7 millimeters or more oversize with more than about 65 psi, requiring rim wall bead hooks and tubes to restrain the weak and soon to become obsolete clincher bead road tires from blowing off the rim. Motorcycles don't have bead hooks, cars don't. The side hooks or "clincher" bead hooks, first became used in the early '70s when high pressure inner tubed road tires had trouble centering on the rim when airing up to 65+ psi and would blow off the rim sooner or later. Road tires will evolve to join the advances lead by mountain bike tires and rims, the weaker hooked rim walls required to restrain the thin and stretchy clincher road tire beads will soon become obsolete.
TIRE BEAD RETENTION SAFETY
Derby Rims have a bead seat retention ridge next to the deep channel around both tire-centering, tubeless ready bead seats. Much like UST bead seat design, the raised bead seat ridges prevents a tubeless tire bead from sliding into the deep center channel and burping while hard cornering. Also the bead retention ridges secure the bead on the bead seat when the tire goes flat, so the flat tire can protect the rim from rock damage while rolling to a stop after flatting. The hookless bead wall with bead seat retention has been used in motorcycle and car tires for decades, but never produced in bicycle rims design before Derby Rims. The Derby Rims innovative more durable and safer optimized thicker hookless rim wall with bead seat retention ridges is patent-pending.?
SPOKES and NIPPLES, and NIPPLE CORROSION
I'm 200+ lbs ride weight, 6'1". I like using DT Swiss Competition DB 2.0/1.8 spokes. I have always built 3 cross lace up, and sometimes 2 cross on the non-drive/ non-front-rotor sides of some wheels with Derby Rims to lower weight without risk of weakness or much flex, because Derby Rims rims are very stiff. I like to use 16 mm alloy nipples because I like the bigger size look, more "moto". Because of the very thick spoke bed of Derby Rims, 14 mm nipples appear exposed how a 12 mm nipple appears exposed in a more thin aluminum rim. 12 mm nipples do work fine, but appear stubby, shorter than nipples are commonly exposed.
I have used alloy nipples with Derby Rims for nearly 2 years with no corrosion problem at all, riding often in the winter in rain and muddy conditions, commuting every day to work rain or shine, and washing my bike and wheels often with a garden hose. There has been no rapid corrosion problem reported with alloy nipples and Derby Rims in nearly 3 years.
Your wheel builder could offer spoke suggestions for you , better knowing your weight and riding style.
ASYMMETRICAL RIM DESIGN
Regarding asymmetrical spoke hole rims, I do not plan to design such style of rims. Asymmetrical holes make about a 10% to 15% spoke tension balance improvement depending on hubs and offset of the spoke holes, which is helpful for improving lateral wheel stiffness for normally much flexier aluminum rims. Carbon rims are so much stiffer than the minor tension balance improvement to reduce lateral stiffness of asymmetrical holes, is not an effective wheel stiffness performance improvement compared to well built symmetrical carbon rims. Also, all Derby rims are designed with a parabolic rim wall profile, which is the strongest load bearing structural shape possible, and for many directions of load input. Parabolic rim wall profile is much stronger load bearing than "U", triangle, I-beam, squared or rounded otherwise shapes. Asymmetrical rim wall design cannot have a parabolic rim wall profile, so asymmetric rim wall design will always reduce the load bearing and rim hit durability resistance using the same material(s) without adding much weight in additional reinforcing layers. I do not want to reduce impact durability from the less than 1% rate of damage reported, by going to a less durable rim profile, having no real lateral wheel stiffness performance improvement for carbon rims.
Photo above is courtesy from authorized Derby Rims wheel builder Mike Curiak of Big Wheels, Grand Junction, CO www.lacemine29.com
BIKE INDUSTRY DEALER, OE, & FULL-TIME EMPLOYEE PRICE DISCOUNTS
Derby Rims promotional bike industry wholesale and employee pricing is available for your shop's customer wheel builds, resale, and for you if you are full time employed in the bike industry. Please email email@example.com, and include your shop name or bike business, and your management title or your manager's name and contact in the email.
DERBY RIMS PROMOTIONAL AMBASSADOR PRICE DISCOUNTS
Are you a very active bike-community advocate or trail builder professional or very active volunteer? Or are you an experienced bike racer and compete very often in regional, state wide, or national bike racing series?
Derby Rims wants you to promote Derby's to your bike community and race friends, and to periodically report to Derby Rims your promotional activities with event pictures which show your Derby rims. Ambassador discount pricing can become available for you and your whole team. Please email your bike-community advocacy position and activity, or racing resume and next year's racing plan, to firstname.lastname@example.org.
Shipping cost within the mainland USA is normally $15 to $25 for 2 rims. Shipping by USPS Priority to Hawaii, Alaska, and Puerto Rico is normally $50.
Shipping cost to deliver 2 to 4 rims outside the US is usually $55 to $75 USD.
Shipping in the USA mainland is by UPS Ground Signature-Required for commercial addresses, or UPS Ground No-Signature Required to residential addresses except Signature-Required to apartment building addresses. Shipping is from northern California, and delivery is 1 to 5 days in the USA.
International shipping, and to Hawaii, Alaska, and Puerto Rico is by United States Post Office (USPS) Priority, usually 4 to 6 days to a major destination. or international customs station. Import fees may apply, and a signature is always required for international deliveries.
For US shipments, if you do want "signature-required for delivery", or any comment you would like to add, please put this request in the "Special Instructions" box in the Derby Rims shopping cart's shipping page, before confirming your order. ( www.shop.derbyrims.com )
TIRE INSERTS such as Procore, Vittoria, Huck Norris, or Cush Core
After much Derby Rims testing and rider reports, when using any tire protection insert it recommend to use the same air pressure as needed without any tire insert, such as Procore, Vittoria, Huck Norris, or Cush Core, or any other tire insert.
To cause rim wall crack damage to AM layup model Derby Rims requires, more than 450 KgF (992 lbs of force) flexing the rim, when measured in machine calibrated force to fail tests. So it is known that some high speed riding sharp hits can produce more than 450 KgF. Rider weight makes no difference. Less than 1% of all Derby rims in 5 years have been reported damaged in recent yearly totals, including less than 1% of the most reinforced DH models in 2017. No other rim brand will publish their lifetime damage rates, because none are nearly as durable as Derby Rims.
Tire insert brands also do not publish sharp hit damage resistance rates. Tire inserts optimistically might support up to 200KgF (440 lbs.) in rider and bike load inside a flat tire on smooth ground, and support less than half this load when concentrated to a 1/2 inch sized tire patch size contacting a round rock or root. You do the math!
In recent years two Derby rim riders have reported damaging Derby rims while using a tire insert, once reported while using ProCore with 18 psi tire pressure while riding a world cup downhill course, and once while using Cush Core with unknown tire pressure.
Tire inserts may offer some improvement in tire to rim contact resistance, but only when using the same tire pressure as without the insert. Tire inserts produce a more progressive rate of tire compressing resistance, producing some bike handling performance improvement.
In conclusion: To produce improvement in tire and rim protection, always use tire inserts with the same tire pressures as needed when riding without the tire inserts.
No nipple washers are required for rim strength and durability, unless the nipples are undersized in rim surface flange size compared the normal 6mm flange width, such as when using internal tower nipples. Smaller internal nipple rim spoke holes can be special ordered, so that no washers would be required for internal nipples.
Building wheels is very satisfying. It does take a long time at first. My first full wheel build took me about 6 hours. Now I can build wheels in about 2 hours each, and that is slow. The pros are less than 1 hour each wheel. Use a professionally build wheel with the same spoke count next to you to reference for the lacing pattern. It's pro style to align the hub label center with the rim's valve hole (kind of tricky to do at first).
A spoke tension gauge is REQUIRED to build durable wheels.
Here is a link to the DT Swiss spoke calculator. It has their DT Swiss hubs in their drop down list, otherwise you need to get the hub specs or measure the hubs for the spoke hole center and flange width numbers needed for the calculator.
You will need the ERD (Effective Rim Diameter). The ERD measurement is listed above in the rim specifications.
Use the "rounded" (stretched by tensioned) spoke length measurement calculated, and round up or down to a whole mm number get the length of spokes to order.
I use the average "Rounded" measurement of all four sides (if the flanges are all the same diameter), and round up to the next mm to get one spoke length that works well for both sides of both hubs. I have never had a problem using the average of all the "Rounded" numbers when all four flanges are the same size.
Professional wheel builders tend to be very exact and want perfect measurement for each side, each flange. The DT Swiss spoke calculator can provide the precise lengths if you want exact length for each side to evenly fill the nipples to the maximum without being too long.
I like using 14mm or 16mm nipples for a better appearance in my eyes. Standard 12mm nipples also work fine, but look very short in carbon rims.
Here's a place I've found to get spokes and nipples for less than anywhere I've ordered from before. "Dan's Comp". https://www.danscomp.com/
There are many videos on U-Tube and guides on line for wheel building if you search with google.
CLEARANCE WITH WIDER RIMS?
This a very frequent question. Usually the simple answer is that tire clearance does change a small amount and usually going to a wider rim will allow the same tires to clear stays and forks.
Here is the long version:
Frame and fork factories have recommendations for 6mm clearance. I have found over the years trying many wheels sizes and during the last 5 years with wider Derby rims, that 4mm tire clearance to the stays and fork legs is required for minimal clearance for a good quality aluminum rim wheel’s flex in dry conditions. Carbon rims flex less than aluminum rims, so that 4mm clearance is normally plenty without rub, unless there is mud build up.
Wider rims widen the tire’s sidewalls, mostly at the tire bead, and less sidewall width increase towards the tread. The tread does not widen at all unless wrapping very far down the sidewall (unusual).
For example: going from a 25mm inside width to 35mm inside width rim, the tire beads widen with the rim so each side of the tire bead is 5mm wider from the rim center, but about 50% up the sidewall towards the top of the tire only about 2 to 2.5mm wider. And the tire tread’s edge knobs flair slightly less and can actually become very slightly narrower from edge to edge by less than 0.5mm. So, you can measure your current rim with and check your current tire’s sidewall clearance to the stays, and see if they would still have 4mm sidewall going to your choice of wider Derby Rims.
A mountain tire’s edge knobs do stand-up about 1mm each side making a very slightly more "square" tread profile, and these edge knobs do come closer to the arch of a fork or yoke of a chain-stay by about 1mm, so it is slightly closer clearance above the edge knobs.
Round profile tread tires remain round, and flatter tread tires remain flatter. Tire tread profile is NOT changed significantly when going to wider rims, do not believe the false hype from older rim brands having large inventories of obsolete narrow rims they still need to sell.
The top-center of the tire's casing cannot grow from wider rims, due to being like a non-stretching belt around the wheel. The casing does grow in circumference very slightly with age over time as the rubber breaks down, but the tread knob height becomes shorter at the same time, making no net gain in the height of the tire at the center of the tread. The edge knobs do stand up slightly, and the casing stiffens under the edge knobs. The stiffer casing under the edge knobs and increased air volume means less air pressure is needed to have a similar firm tire compression feel. And the wider rims stabilize a tire so softer compressing tires can be used with good stability, increased traction, and less rolling resistance over rocks. Be careful to avoid too low pressures that would allow a tire to case the rim when hitting sharp rocks, carbon-fiber rims don't dent and will pinch flat a cased tire more easily.
Derby rim spokes are angled laterally towards the flange widths of common hubs, but not forward and rearward. There is about 4 degrees nipple rotational "float" forward and rearward and laterally using common external nipples. The Derby rim is designed with thick spoke beads for 100% resistance to spoke pull. Never has a spoke pulled out of any Derby rim. The Derby rims deep spoke holes does limit spoke angle rotational float compared to much thinner aluminum rim spoke holes.
A Rohloff distributor or dealer should have experience with nipple angle limitation problems, and may be able to offer a known solution.
A 2018 Continental Divide racer on Derby Rims with a Rohloff hub successfully finished with no spoke or nipple issues. The Derby Rims dealer, Sub-Culture Cyclery in Salida, CO was very careful lacing this Rohloff hub, by lacing 2-cross and using 16mm brass nipples to better support the slight spoke bend limited by the production angles. A shorter nipple or alloy would not support a long radius spoke bend, and a spoke could snap at the threads, a stress-riser weak point.
Custom order spoke hole drilling, such as for unusual spoke angles, or smaller holes for internal nipples, or more or less hole counts, etc. can be ordered. Special ordered Derby rims require a non-refundable payment in advance and there would be a about 2 month wait to deliver at minimum.
Since 2012 ... The Highest Performance & Most Durable Carbon Fiber Rims for Mountain, Road, Gravel, Adventure & E-Assist Bikes